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Korst's
testimony before the New York
General Assembly in October of this year is, in
our opinion, the defining example of pro-industry speech.
There will be no shortage opportunities for Rent to
Own industry professionals to speak before state and federal legislators
in the coming months and years regarding the unique nature, and
legitimacy of the Rent to Own transaction.
Based on evidence, there
is a general lack of understanding of the RTO transaction by legislators on
both sides of the political aisle. The best way to educate
legislators is to meet with them face to face. The problem; What
to say?
RTO Online believes the best way to learn is by watching an
expert. As the nations top Rent to Own Company, Rent A Center is
a leader in all major state and federal legislative efforts.
Chris Korst, Rent A Center Vice President and General Counsel,
has probably met with, and testified in front of, more legislators
than any other person in the industry.
In October of this year, Korst testified before the New York
General Assembly. The 160 page transcript of the hearing is, in
our opinion, the defining example of pro-industry speech. RTO Online offers the transcript here, in its
entirety, for training purposes. Note: This is a real-time, word
for word transcription of the testimony supplied by the
New York Assembly. Please disregard
grammatical errors.
Read the entire transcript,
Print the entire transcript or click the shortcuts on the left
to jump to specific issues.
|
Shortcuts to
key sections of the transcript. |
|
Print entire transcript |
|
I think it would be helpful, once again, to remind you
all and the committee for the record of what it is that
we do in the rent-to-own business... |
|
Industry and independently developed
statistics have shown that just 20 to 25 percent of all
transactions in our business result in the consumers are
acquiring ownership... |
|
Over 85 percent of our customers rent on
a week to week basis and almost all pay in person in our
stores. I think it's fair to say, as I did in Buffalo,
those statistics are powerful evidence and real evidence
of the fact that we are in the rental business first and
foremost |
|
It bears repeating here today, that
statute was one of the very first rental purchase
specific laws to be passed in the country and since that
time, 46 states, the District of Columbia, the Puerto
Rico, the Virgin Islands and the territory of Guam have
modeled legislation after what was done in New York here
20 years ago. |
|
The areas of focus of the New York Rental
Purchase Agreements Act are both, I guess you might
describe it as procedural and substantive, procedural
meaning in my parlance full and complete disclosure of
all key financial terms, transparency if you will |
|
As we've heard a couple weeks ago, from
two customers who had had an unfortunate experiences
with rental purchase companies out in the western part
of state, what struck me as I listened to those stories,
aside form the fact that it was a terrible thing to hear
about and had have happened was that the law that was in
place worked. |
|
So, I think the lesson there is you know
responsible merchants have an obligation to train and
retrain and retrain again their employees so that those
sorts of mistakes aren't made. But laws aren't written
because nobody ever makes mistakes. |
|
The first speaker refereed to the
negative community impacts, that businesses that you’re
looking at today and identified rent-to-own as one of
those. |
|
First of all, 49 percent of our stores
nationwide are located in urban areas. I think the
national -- the 2000 census data indicates that
somewhere over 60 percent of all Americans live in Urban
areas and yet only 49 percent of our stores are locate
indeed Urban areas. |
|
it's simply not the case that we
concentrate on urban areas. We concentrate on areas
where our customers are who need and want our services. |
|
With respect to the racial mix and that
issue was brought up as well in terms of targeting, I
can, again, only speak for rent a center, but I can you
that our mix of customers is roughly, I shouldn't say
roughly, is nearly identical to the overall US
population mix in terms of race make up. So it's simply
not the fact that a disproportionate number of our
customers are African American, are Hispanics or any
other minority. |
|
you asked about an analysis that might
have been done in 2001 by some entity in New York City.
I can tell you that that entity was the Department of
Consumer Affairs. I was involved in that and
Rent-A-Center to that analysis, |
|
to no one's surprise the department found
our prices are higher than what the these products are
available for in retail stores, but I think it's fair to
say that first and foremost, we've never said that they
aren't. I think we've been very forthright and
transparent with respect to the our business and why it
costs more |
|
we price our goods not on the basis of
that single customer who might rent and acquire
ownership 12 months later and never pay late and never
have any of the service issues and we have to price our
goods and services based upon doing business with all of
our customers and all of their experiences taken
together as one. |
|
what we do is so very different from
retail that to make those comparisons between what we
are for business services that for what you might be
able to purchase those same products for from Best Buy,
is really to compare apples to oranges |
|
Best Buy certainly doesn't provide the
opportunity to pay over time, unless you borrow money
from either them or a credit card company, this in which
case that costs you money. They don't provide the
services that we do, they charge extra for the delivery
and installation. And there are certainly no right to
terminate the transactions |
|
The final speaker or the speaker before
me, I think mentioned three issues that, she asserted
the rent to own companies are “notorious” for. The first
was, our cash prices and how they relate to those same
cash prices at retail, the second had to do repossessing
without notice, and the third she stated, was
misrepresenting used products as new. |
|
the New York statute, as well as it does,
is that it has a private right of action that not only
provides minimum statutory penalties but it also
provides for attorneys fees so there is an encouragement
to the private bar to accept these cases and pursue
them. So, it's before been a very effective tool for
making rental purchase merchants, reasonable and
responsible and treat their customers fairly, which is
ultimately what we really strive to do. |
|
we've partnered with state governments
and municipalities in other states before and we would
be delighted and honored to do so if that's an object
that you would like to pursue going forward. And then
finally, of course, as you all think about 2008, we
would like to be partners with you in addressing
whatever concerns may be raised and need to be discussed
through legislative process. |
| Questions and Answers |
| Q:
CHAIRWOMAN PHEFFER: Thank you. As always, you certainly
do put on a bright light on the industry in a very
positive and just a couple of questions. You talked
about, and I have your display, which is very clear
which says that it's new or it's been previously rented
on and on and it talks about the monthly price, the cash
price, and the sold price. How do you establish the cash
price again, would you tell us? And then let's say it
talks a 23 month payment, what happens in I decide and
everything works out and I want to end it in 12 months,
how do you compute the cash price at that time?
A:
MR. KORST: Madame Chairwoman, the first question is
really answered by something that we've talked a little
bit about in the past and that is, like most businesses
I assume, we have an understanding of how much it costs
us to be in this business.
I think over the last five years we've
averaged about eight percent in net profits and I think
if you check the record the S&P 500's Companies have
over that same period averaged 11 and a half percent.
So, I think we're well within the range of reason in
terms of profitability
Maybe more informative than that long
winded answer, though, is a comparison between what it
costs in our business for a consumer as compared to
retail, and I can tell you that, and again, I've said
this before, we're completely transparent
The macroeconomics are if you think about
the retail marketplace today it's dominated by these
huge retailers. Best Buy I think I mentioned, sells more
televisions on the day after Thanksgiving than we rent
in an entire year. That's just a different scale.
In answer to your second question, if
after 12 months on a 23 months transaction you wished to
terminate the transaction and purchase the goods, then
at that point, we would take the original cash price,
and by the way this is all dictated by the statute, we
would take the originally stated cash price and subtract
from that one half of the total amount of rental
payments that you made up to that point. |
| Q:
CHAIRWOMAN PHEFFER: Thank you. The other
one is why the other people won but now we know that.
How come rent-to-own have such a bad rap then? I mean,
you heard the testimony two weeks ago you hear the
testimony now, we have the laws, is it the few smaller
ones that take advantage and the enforcement is not
there? Every one of the conversations today about
predatory lending puts in rent-to-own as one of the
evils on the low-income people of a community.
A:
MR. KORST: I'm going to answer your
question in a way they think is different than what you
might expect, Assemblywoman. I think the real problem is
that we all wish that families and individuals who don't
have the same economic means and don't have the same
credit scores as others wouldn't have to pay more for
the transactions that they engage in, and our
transaction is one that appeals to the customers who are
in that group.
I don't know what to do about it,
frankly, because if the options on the table are to
consider enacting legislation that would treat this
transaction in the same fashion as credit sales are
treated and regulated in this state, then that decision
would put this industry out of business and this option
would no longer exist.
Calling us credit just simply means we're
going to have to play by those roles and by the way, I
think you all ought to take a step back and think about
this, credit companies aren't doing business with many
of the customers that we do business with because the
laws don't permit the flexibility that they need in
order to do that business with them.
the FTC wrote about this in 2000 in there
Seminal Report on the rent-to-own industry, there is no
barrier, there's no bar to a credit company opening up a
store and lending money to make these purchases to the
exact same customer we're serving and yet we can all
look around and see that they're not there, right?
I'm no banker and I'm in the an
economist, but I am somewhat keen observer of how the
marketplaces work, and my suspicion is that banks
weren't lending money before. In fact, to individuals
with bad credit and little amounts of cash.
the demand is clearly there. The question
and challenge I think, for you all and for folks who are
in those industries and for folks like me who think
about these issues a lot is, how do you balance the
desire to make those transaction, though options
available with sufficiently strong consumer protection
that ensures that consumers who have the need are
treated fairly by lenders who are responsible? And
that's the challenge.
I think we've proven turning back to the
rent-to-own piece and Rent-A-Center in particular, we've
been in business here for 25 years and I being we've
proven consistently that that we are driven by customer
service. That this is a highly competitive industry,
that we loose customers to our competitors all the time
and that if we don't continue to enhance what we offer
and how we offer T we're going to lose that customer |
| Q:
CHAIRWOMAN PHEFFER: Yes. Well, it gave me
-– there was one and I don’t – I remembered in Buffalo
that the competition between the companies, there is one
that’s much cheaper? A:
MR. KORST: Aaron’s Rents, which has come
into the New York State markets, really I think over the
last 4 or 5 years. They're a relative new comer and
they're offering the same transaction as we do, but if
you were to look at their total of payments, they’d
probably be about 25 to 30 percent less than what
customers could get the same goods for from us if
acquiring ownership was there goal and they don't do any
credit checks, they serve the exact same customers that
we serve.
But again, the Federal Trade Commission,
not known as a softie on consumer protection, observed
some time ago that this I highly competitive business,
all you need is a truck some furnisher and appliances
and you can compete with Rent-A-Center
many of our customers have credit, it's
just limited. And so they protect that credit for
emergencies or back to school when they need clothing
and books and so forth, and then others choose not to
use credit. They'd rather -- maybe they've had some
problems before and they don't want to get into the
credit trap again if you will, so they use our
transaction as a way of getting the things that they
need, and yet not having to enter into a debt
transaction.
It's also I think an economically
thoughtful transaction and I'll give you one instance,
an example of that. A family of 4 will spend more every
week at the laundry mat than they would renting a full
size washer and dryer from one our Rent-A-Center stores.
Yet after 12 months they wouldn't own the Laundromat,
they would own the washer and dryer that they had rented
from us. And by the way, how different is the
convenience factor? |
| Q:
CHAIRMAN TOWNS: Thank you. Mr. Korst, who
do You have to register with when you set up shop, is
there a registration process in order to say we're
Rent-A-Center and we're here, because --
A:
MR. KORST: No. There are – I’m sorry,
that’s an excellent point. There is no statewide
licensing requirement. There are a number of city
requirements including New York City |
| Q:
CHAIRMAN TOWNS: The reason why I asked
that is that is that, I know that with us making the
call to have these discussions that we’ve had folks
would have come in, it's not like we've had to find
someone and subpoena them and drag them in. I know that
we've had we've increased our understanding of some
things in some places and maybe there are some bad guys
that are out there that are doing business similar to
the stories that we've heard within check cashing
industry, that there are people who are licensed and
there are people who are unlicensed and where we can't
find those unlicensed, a lot of opportunity is there for
unscrupulous activity. A:
MR. KORST: Mostly it’s about access. If
you think about the examples that you just gave, you
needed access to a variant on what you already have in
your life, you have a car but you're in Florida and so
you don't want to have to buy another car but you but
you need access and there is Hertz who is willing to
provide that. You need golf clubs, you’re out of town,
and you don’t want to take your clubs on the plane, same
option. Access is a little different for our customers.
access to our customer is, I need
this, I want this, and these companies are willing to do
business with me even though I have bad credit and I
don't have very much cash, you know, and there's the
access. That's the switch that rental provides that
other transactions just don't. |
| Q:
ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES: Okay. I guess to a
certain extent -- let me just ask you this. You only
represent Rent-A-Center sure in the here representing
all the rent-to-own industry, you're just representing
Rent-A-Center. A:
MR. KORST: That is correct, although I
should say that Rent-A-Center is a member of both the
New York State Rental Leaders Association and as well as
the National -- |
| Q:
ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES: I didn’t realized
there was one of those and quite frankly I wonder whey
they haven’t participated in this hearing?
A:
MR. KORST: I think they left that up to
me. |
| Q:
ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES: So you are
speaking for all the rent-to-own centers.
A:
MR. KORST: I guess in a matter of speaking, I
would be. I should also be clear, that association really has
about, including all of our stores, only about two thirds of the
total store count here in the state and so there's probably
hundred stores that are owned and operated by business people
who are not members of the association. |
| Q:
ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES: Clarence New York.
I really doubt that you have any in Clarence. I doubt
that you have any -- these are very affluent suburban
communities I don't think that you have them there.
A:
MR. KORST: That's all right. If you wouldn't mind I
would like to just point out one thing, that big screen
televisions are less than 7 percent of our overall
business. Beds, couches, for kids to sit and watch TV or
do homework on, computers, so they can keep up in
school, appliances, so that the food can stay hold cold
and the clothes can be washed, that's the bulk of our
business. Luxuries of the sort that -- I mean, it's a
popular myth and it's easy to wave it and be critical of
it, but at the end of the day, that's a very small part
of our business, furthermore, if a customer under one of
our transactions truly can't afford the product and it
is a luxury of the sort that you've just described, they
have the option to return that good at any time and have
no further payment obligations. |
MR.
KORST: Good afternoon, Madame Chairwoman, Chairman Towns and
Assemblywoman Peoples, thank you for the opportunity to, again,
testify before this joint committee. My name is Chris Korst and
I am Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Rent-A-Center
Incorporated, we're based out down in Dallas Texas or the Dallas
Texas area, I should say. (top)
I have prepared testimony and submitted that testimony to the
committee for your consideration, but rather than go through
that, I think it's largely and substantively the same as I
testified to a couple of weeks ago when we were in Buffalo
together. I would like to take the opportunity and maybe just
touch on couple of highlights because those highlights, I think,
will address a couple of the issues that have been raised today
in regard to the rent-to-own or rental purchase transaction.
Then in addition to that, go ahead and specifically address some
questions and concerns that were raised and then I’d be glad to
answer questions at that point. I will try to be brief. I have
an airplane and I would rather catch it than end up staying over
one more day. As much as I like New York City, I do need to get
home some time. (top)
I think it would be helpful today would be helpful, once again,
to remind you all and the committee for the record of what it is
that we do in the rent-to-own business. Who our customers
are and what our transactions are that so that the issues that
you’ve heard raised today or that you may have concerns about
can be considered and addressed in a proper legal and factual
framework. Rent-to-own companies like Rent-A-Center offer name
brand high quality durable goods furniture appliances,
electronics and computers are our main product lines, for rent
on a week-to-week or month-to-month basis. Customers are
typically never obligated beyond the initial term to continue
renting and in fact can return the rented product at any time
without penalty and without further financial obligation. Our
customers also have the option to continue renting after the
initial rental or renewal period and can do so simply by paying
an additional weekly or monthly rental payment in advance. (top)
They also, as you would guess, from the name of the transaction
rent or purchase or rent to own have the option again without
the obligation to acquire ownership of those goods. In addition
to the property products themselves, we provide delivery and
installation of those products in our customers homes as well as
full service, including the provision of loaners or replacement
items if we can't repair the original items in the customers
homes. All of that we provide without additional charge beyond
the basic rental charge that we have. And finally, we do not
require any down payments or security deposits and we don't do
credit checks on our customers as we don't consider their prior
credit history in deciding whether or not to rent them. (top)
Industry and independently developed statistics have shown that
just 20 to 25 percent of all transactions in our business result
in the consumers are acquiring ownership. Slightly less than
70 percent of all of our transactions terminate with the
property |